• MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Eh, there’s a notional aspiration to socialism at least, which is more than can be said about the US sphere of countries.

    In practice though? Yeah, China is hyper-captialist, without much of the social security present in wealthier countries.

    Why Leftist get a hard-on for the former USSR, Russia and China, or frankly any country, is beyond me.

    There are positive and negative outcomes in line or against socialist ideals everywhere (I think people are too black and white about China in both directions personally)

    I just do not understand simping for any country, just because they are “socialist”.

    • sparky@lemmy.federate.cc@lemmy.federate.cc
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      5 months ago

      IMO this is why it takes an additional axis to define a government, not just left/right but also free/authoritarian. You can find examples of all combinations. Left wing and repressive? Cuba. Left leaning and free? Sweden. Right wing and repressive? Russia, Saudi Arabia, whatever. Right leaning and free (mostly)? USA.

      Obviously, there’s a gradient within these axes, but it’s strange to see people cheering on a country that matches their preferred left or right wing ideology if they’re super repressive.

      • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        This is why we need to reeducate people and stop using the traditional left-right spectrum and start using the axis spectrum

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          5 months ago

          Even the axis spectrum is unproductive, ideologies and frameworks cannot be distilled into single data points on a map, no matter how many axes you add.

          • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            The axis spectrum has proven to be very efficient imo. A lot of the politics we talk about are mainly composed of social and economic elements which the axis spectrum portrays well.

              • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                These views aren’t complicated though, or aren’t as complicated as you think. Most of our political opinions can be boiled down to any of the 4 quadrants of the axis.

                Can you name any view that doesn’t fit into this axis?

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  5 months ago

                  Many. Which is more “authoritarian” and which is more “libertarian,” a fully publicly owned and democratically controlled economy, or a highly decentralized market economy with a nightwatchman state?

                  • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    Well it depends right, let’s not act like there isn’t nuance to this.

                    a fully publicly owned and democratically controlled economy

                    It falls on the libertarian-left if individuals and communities genuinely govern themselves without coercion e.g democratic socialism. However, if the system requires a strong central authority to enforce public ownership and suppress alternative systems, it moves toward the authoritarian-left e.g Marxist-Leninism

                    a highly decentralized market economy with a nightwatchman state

                    This is just a straight up libertarian right economy. A nightwatchman state equals laissez-faire capitalism which aligns with libertarian-right philosophy.

                    To answer your question, it depends on the type of publicly owned and democratically controlled economy we’re talking about.